Kamq 5 days ago

> People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating.

You don't do it in public. There's no face to lose in private (you're a subordinate, face is only lost among peers and superiors).

It is, however, not really a good idea to be 100% blunt out of the gate. There's a dance to it. But in public, I'm there to make my manager look good, and in private I'll tell them exactly what I think. Once they're confident I'm there to be at their back, it's never gone wrong, even in highly disfunctional orgs (I'm a consultant and get brought in to play "doctor" with hopeless projects a lot).

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ChrisMarshallNY 4 days ago

One of my favorite pieces of consultant advice, is Beans and Noses: https://archive.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/07/08/beans-and-nos...

The_Colonel 4 days ago

> you're a subordinate, face is only lost among peers and superiors

I disagree. Losing the respect of your subordinates is IMHO worse than of your superior.

ChrisMarshallNY 4 days ago

To a point. I have found that subordinates always have to feel that they have a "little secret edge" over their managers.

In my experience, this is both harmless and necessary. If I, as a manager, can't handle that, then I'm kinda screwed.

But it is also highly dependent on the types of people we manage.

Source: Manager for over 25 years, of a bunch of folks much smarter and more experienced than me.

Kamq 4 days ago

You can lose the respect of your subordinates, but that's different than losing face.

Although one may lead to the other, they are different things.

Archelaos 4 days ago

I think the OP meant: in private, face is only lost when criticised by a peer or superior.

vampiresdoexist 4 days ago

If your superior is managing up well, then it truly doesn’t matter if subordinates lose respect. Probably laying groundwork for new ones well in advance of that becoming a real issue for their status.

lazide 4 days ago

Most people can, some people can’t - and the ones who can’t can be incredibly dangerous.

jajko 4 days ago

Yeah good luck with getting anything, ever, out of folks that feel butt-hurt due to their fragile emotions, in my experience women often go the extra mile to hold grudges, while sporting big smiles publicly.. That gate is closed for good, and you really have no idea what to expect - be it silent treatment or even subversion and backstabbing.

To summarize - each of us is pretty unique, and without going though it you can't know how words can affect other people, even those above you that should know better. But they didn't get to that elevated position via honed skill of listening calmly to their subordinates feedback, did they.

lazide 4 days ago

The challenge we all have is, that just leaves everyone angry with each other and unable to actually make progress or solve any problems together.

phist_mcgee 3 days ago

You sound like a ray of sunshine

dpig_ 2 days ago

Even if you do it in private, they may take it as a sign of a subordinate who has designs on their job. Or on toppling them at any rate. Insecurity is everywhere.