sys32768 6 days ago

Harvard admitted it needs to "...broaden the intellectual and viewpoint diversity within our community..."

This is a no-brainer considering only 2.3% of their faculty identifies as conservative.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2023/5/22/faculty-survey-...

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pesus 6 days ago

How is this a no brainer? How many of their faculty identity as believers in a flat earth? Are we concerned about that viewpoint being underrepresented as well?

fisherjeff 6 days ago

Well, 2.3% of the Faculty of Arts & Sciences. I would bet that, say, the business school has a slightly different makeup…

NoImmatureAdHom 5 days ago

We're talking about going from 2.3% to maybe 13%. And this isn't a reflection of attitudes among people who are potentially employed there, it's a reflection of overt, rigid filtering on the basis of political beliefs.

alexb_ 5 days ago

Typically, in order to be employed at a college, you have to be smart and aware of the world. This qualification disqualifies basically all conservatives.

NoImmatureAdHom 5 days ago

That's not true. Painting the "other" as some sort of one-dimensional malevolent retard isn't doing you or anyone else any favors. I promise.

There are real people, even smart people, on the other team. They have thoughts, kids, impressive degrees, goals unrelated to politics. They enjoy sunshine and hiking. They think they're doing what they're doing for good reasons. They believe themselves to be good people. They might even believe you to be a good person.

alimw 5 days ago

> They believe themselves to be good people.

As should be more widely known, this is a bad start to actually being good people.

BobaFloutist 6 days ago

And I bet that the % of their faculty that identify as flat earthers is even more egregious!

arp242 6 days ago

So pick one or the other: having a broad representation from many walks of life is important or it's not. You can't mix or match depending on which group you like.

And that is what I'm commenting on. I'm not a fan of Trump's "war on DEI" but if it was applied with some consistency I could take it as a genuine difference in viewpoints. That would be okay. But the movement is railing hard and vitriolic against anything with even a whiff of "DEI" while applying wildly different standards to themselves. This is hard to take as a genuine difference in viewpoints.

const_cast 6 days ago

Conservatives will make observations such as "the most educated people are almost never conservative" and they will conclude that it's not their ideology that may be on shaky grounds, but rather the concept of education itself.

inglor_cz 5 days ago

"Most American academia" !== "most educated people" (much less so if taken globally).

Many Americans would be seriously surprised by the balance of left and right at continental European universities. It is nowhere near as one-sided. And Asian universities are a completely different world.

Generalizing from the extremely lopsided ratios in academia of the Anglosphere to the global educated class is somewhat unreliable.

baegi 5 days ago

From my European pont of view, I think the definitions of left and right have shifted a lot.

Sure, in Europe left and right may be more closely matched in academia, but most "right"-leaning Europeans would not be anywhere near the "right" in US-terms, so your argument is comparing very different things

inglor_cz 5 days ago

Depends. German Burschenschaften, though not massive, strike me as very far right. IIRC one of them had a big row over whether they can accept a member who was ethnically Chinese. (That guy was a full German citizen born in Dortmund, but of Asian ancestry.)

const_cast 5 days ago

> Generalizing from the extremely lopsided ratios in academia of the Anglosphere to the global educated class is somewhat unreliable.

I agree generally, however you should be aware that American republicans are not referring to these people because they don't know anything about them. While the American left is typically extremely US-centric, the American right is even more so. So, while you have a point, you are giving them far too much credit. Their view of American education IS their view of education in general, because that's all they know. If they wanted to know more they would have to educate themselves, but they're ideologically opposed to education, so...

And, to be clear, it only takes a small look through Republican policy making to deduce they are ideologically opposed to education. They outright say it, usually.

And it makes complete sense when you think about conservatism as an ideology and education as a concept. Education is the processes of breaking down thought processes, destroying preconceived notions, and seeking truth through evidence. It denounces the idea that what is correct is what is common. It denounces the idea that wisdom is just a given, and not something to be worked towards. This is directly antithetical to conservatism. Conservatism values maintenance and blind belief, keeping stability for the sake of stability. It values faith in things working, and not evidence of why it's working. It denounces the notions of explanations and reasoning being required. It upholds the status quo because it is the status quo. It's naturally risk-averse, anti-creative, and small-minded.

This is the reason progressiveness, whether it be in Europe or anywhere else, thrives in education whereas conservatism struggles. It is, however, important to note that this does not perfectly line up with American politics. But, the American political system is associated with these underlying ideologies and thought patterns.

johnnyanmac 4 days ago

IDK how it is today, but last decade the US was considered to have many of the best educational institutions.

>Many Americans would be seriously surprised by the balance of left and right at continental European universities.

Yes, because EU "left" would be accused of socialism, whereas the EU "right" would mostly be the US's existing left wing. the US right wing was always on a far side and these days fell straight to the AfD levels of extremism.

It's not one sided, but the spectrum is completely different.

>And Asian universities are a completely different world.

I'm sure they are. a history fighting within the eastern continent and a rule of emporers will shape differently than from a land of conquerers puahing for conformity who eventually tried to make nice as their regimes fell and created this hybrid of individualism and trade amongst one another.

rstuart4133 6 days ago

> This is a no-brainer considering only 2.3% of their faculty identifies as conservative.

That's true now. It wasn't always true. From: https://www.aei.org/articles/are-colleges-and-universities-t...

- In 1989-1990, when HERI first fielded this survey, 42% of faculty identified as being on the left, 40% were moderate, and another 18% were on the right.

- in 2016-2017, HERI found that 60% of the faculty identified as either far left or liberal compared to just 12% being conservative or far right

Now you say it's 2.3% conservative.

The universities argue they haven't changed, it's the politics of the right. I'd say they are correct as the right now to disavows and ridicules the output of universities on things like climate change, tariffs, vaccines, health, voter fraud in US elections ... well it's a long list. It wasn't like that 30 years ago.

The universities are supposed to be intellectual power houses fearlessly seeking out fundamental truths and relationships, regardless of what the people in power might think of their discoveries. Both sides of politics once celebrated that. Now one side wants to control what types of thought the universities allow, demanding they monitor, snitch, report, and police the on ideas the conservative base don't like. That's directly opposed to how Universities operate. They allow and encourage all types of thought, but insist they be exposed to a torrent of opposing thoughts so only the soundest survive.

Frankly, I'm amazed 2.3% still identify with a mob that clearly wants to undermine that. I'm guessing it will drop to near 0% now.

ConspiracyFact 4 days ago

> Now one side wants to control what types of thought the universities allow, demanding they monitor, snitch, report, and police the on ideas the conservative base don't like. That's directly opposed to how Universities operate.

Seriously?

LPisGood 6 days ago

American conservatives are increasingly not grounded in facts and reality. This isn’t partisan, it’s just an observation of reality. I used to identify as a conservative, but they have become less and less grounded as a party.

toofy 6 days ago

that’s the faculty of arts and sciences—is this administration going to mandate university economics and business schools —which likely lean heavily capitalist—demand ideological diversity and bring in more communists?

latentcall 5 days ago

Are conservatives a protected class now? We need DEI to make sure we hire enough conservatives in our company so we look super diverse

otterley 5 days ago

You make it sound like modern conservatives possess the intellectual rigor and career achievements required to meet Harvard’s hiring bar.

janalsncm 6 days ago

I am against admissions discrimination so I disagree. Conservatives should get into schools based on merit.

arrosenberg 6 days ago

Do they ask for your political ideology on the Harvard application?

NoImmatureAdHom 5 days ago

De facto yes. This is what essays, particularly "diversity statements" are for.

Also, if you're an academic seeking employment, your work and professional connections will make it clear.

janalsncm 6 days ago

No, which is why it’s so surprising so few are able to get in.

arrosenberg 6 days ago

How can we know that without knowing how many apply? How many 18 year-olds even have a real ideology? I know mine shifted a lot during college.

janalsncm 6 days ago

If conservatives are applying at a more than 3% rate then either 1) Harvard is using some method besides directly asking for their ideology to discriminate against conservatives or 2) they are being rejected on non-ideological grounds e.g. merit.

If they are not applying at a rate of over 3% then there is no discrimination.

arrosenberg 6 days ago

It sounds like you don't really know if they are being discriminated against, even though you are stating it as fact. The 3% number could be biased due to any number of reasons, conservatives may not apply to Harvard for ideological reasons, or student ideologies may shift during education.

It's possible that you can identify right-wing high schoolers based on their writing, but I don't really see a problem with rejecting students if they are touting unpopular and/or discriminatory ideas. Universities have the right to maintain a culture of openness and learning, and conservatism is often antithetical to that.

comte7092 6 days ago

Yeah what Harvard definitely needs is more faculty who will defend sending people to Salvadoran prisons without due process. /s