nradov 8 days ago

Nah. That's such a naive and uniformed take. Signature reduction (stealth) remains broadly useful in that it makes air defense harder and more expensive. Anything based on cameras using ambient light is going to be of very limited use, especially at night or bad weather. And cameras can't be permanently installed on the open ocean.

The days of large aircraft are in no way "numbered". In order to have enough range to operate in the Indo-Pacific Theater that requires a lot of fuel, which implies a large aircraft (regardless of whether it's manned or unmanned). And while AI might eventually be effective at controlling combat aircraft, as of today that remains science fiction. So that means you need a person either directly in the combat aircraft, or actively controlling a large "loyal wingman" type drone from within line of sight (to ensure reliable communications in a hostile EW environment).

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ckozlowski 8 days ago

Indeed. And to add to your argument, AI may be effective in controlling aircraft for certain tasks some day. But there are still many that will either require a pilot there, or greatly benefit from a pilot there.

The "drones will replace everything" argument does not understand fully the missions required of combat aircraft. I won't be as foolish to say it could never happen. But to those who argue that, say, the F-35 should be canceled in favor of a drone, need to show how their drone can do what a manned strike aircraft like the F-35 can do.

And indeed, stealth was always a "make air defense more expensive" prospect. And while techniques have come out to counter some of the benefits of stealth, they all come with tradeoffs and added costs....which was precisely the point.

ajross 8 days ago

The question isn't whether One Specific Mission might be replaceable. It's whether a war fought with the 1000 F-35's needed to do that mission can be successfully prosecuted against an enemy armed with A Million Drones (because yes, 1000x is just about the cost delta we're talking about).

Consider: Germany in 1940 had absolutely no answer for French heavy armor. There were weapon systems along the Maginot line which the wehrmacht couldn't counter, and everyone knew it. They didn't need to.

nradov 8 days ago

You're not even asking the right question. There's nothing magic about cheap drones. They can be effective supplements to crew-served weapons and light artillery for close combat. But they lack the range to be effective in the Indo-Pacific Theater, and when drones are designed with sufficient range they stop being cheap. Besides the range problem, cheap drones also can't perform the full spectrum of missions like deep strike, ASuW, interception, etc.

For all its faults, the F-35 at least has sufficient combat radius and survivability to be relevant in a major near-peer conflict (although it desperately needs a new and more expensive adaptive cycle engine). Until a better platform comes along the choices are essentially the F-35 or nothing.

robocat 8 days ago

> And cameras can't be permanently installed on the open ocean.

If the camera can self-calibrate against known objects then camera motion can be adjusted for. Could use visible reference points (sun, moon, stars) with clear skies. Stars may be visible by a sensitive camera in daytime with good collimation (bottom of well story https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/star-search/ ). There are also radio sources (GPS satellites) or more SciFi solution of noisy stellar objects??

ajross 8 days ago

> And while AI might eventually be effective at controlling combat aircraft, as of today that remains science fiction

That's ridiculous, sorry. There are literally AI bots being banned every day on War Thunder! There are armed long-range drones under cross-continent satellite control already! Of all the things AI/automation might have trouble with, operating rigorously-documented aircraft systems and making shoot/don't-shoot decisions of a handful of targets is surely one of the easiest[1]. If you as a military planner don't do this because you think it's impossible, you're going to lose.

[1] I mean seriously: would you have an easier time making AI to fire a missile or sew a prom dress? Not even close, the dress is harder. And AI garment manufacture is reaching the market already!

nradov 8 days ago

Nah. That's such a naive and uniformed take. War Thunder is a highly simplified toy video game. It has no relevance to the real world.

Satellite control is also irrelevant. In any major near-peer conflict the reconnaissance and communications satellites will be the first casualties. The USA and China are currently engaged in an ASAT arms race. That's why they're back to planning and training to fight without satellite support.

ckozlowski 8 days ago

War Thunder is not representative of actual conflict.

jandrewrogers 8 days ago

Games are not remotely as complex of an operating environment as the real world.