Are you actually advocating for an inheritance tax close to 100%?
Because that is completely unworkable IMO, for several reasons:
1) Unless you introduce comparable "wealth transfer"/gift taxes, it becomes completely meaningless for the average case.
2) This would be insanely harmful in cases of unexpected deaths; inheritance is a really bad compensation already when someone close dies, this would make it even worse. And dealing with any kind of shared assets would be a nightmare, too (father dies, mother has to pay tax on half the house?)
Could be workable with large allowances though, but I don't hink you would ever get this pushed through in a democracy because it is too easy to put negative spin on it (even if it was in the majorities economical best interest).
I don't think that inheritance tax is a bad concept, but setting it higher than the gift tax rate is actively harmful and would not achieve anything.
You don't normally pay inheritance taxes for spousally shared assets. Is that not the case where you are, or did you purposefully give this the worst framing?
No, I'm not purposefully giving this the worst framing.
My main point is that setting it higher than gift tax rates is effectively pointless, and basically just punishes people for dying unexpectedly (and/or not planning ahead for their own death), and neither is desirable.
A purpose of death taxes is to even out the effect of not being born into wealth. I'd rather make it easier for living people by 'punishing' dead people than make it harder for living people by punishing them for not being born into the right family.
I absolutely see your point, but if you set inheritance tax higher than gift tax rate, then that rate difference does nothing for wealth inequality (because people are just gonna gift things in their 80's at the latest, or set things up legally to avoid the tax), while the inheritance tax is highly punishing for families of the unepxectedly deceased.
It’s not pointless. It may be counterproductive but kicking rich people when they’re down is popular among certain sections of society since it’s a subset of kicking rich people, which they like generally.
I'd advocate for that. The dead have no property rights. Survivors have no automatic right to get rich when uncle pennybags kicks the bucket.
All the rest is quibbling about logistics. Yes, we know rich people are very good at hiding their money.
> Could be workable with large allowances though,
Like US$13M ? That is the current situation in the United States.
Absolutely-- but if you have to exempt like 99% of your population from a law then its probably not too popular a concept (compare income tax, which a lot more people are actually fine with paying).
I still think this would have mainly negative effects if the gift tax rate is lower than inheritance tax anyway.
> but if you have to exempt like 99% of your population from a law then its probably not too popular a concept
It is hard to take this seriously. Are you seriously suggesting that the threshold is set at this level because of unpopularity rather than the power of the extremely wealthy? Have you looked at how the threshold has changed over time, and why?
> than the power of the extremely wealthy?
How does that make sense? In theory only the extremely wealthy have to pay the tax (not that they necessarily do that). In what way would it being so high benefit them?
absolutely. If you removed the limit and applied to the 99%, it would be the most unpopular tax in the country.
I don't believe there's ever been a situation (at least in the USA) where there was no threshold at all. So the argument is over its value, not its existence.
That said, sure, you're right. But why are you right? I would suggest it is because we live (in the USA, among other places) in a culture that strongly emphasizes the right to pass along generational wealth. But this is not universally true across time and space, and our culture took a different tack (say, by quoting august Republican figures from the late 19th and early 20th centuries), the popularity or otherwise would likely be entirely different.
The argument is about the exclusion threshold because that determines who it is applied to. People generally support taking from other people but not from themselves.
A flat 50% rate still extract much more value from the rich, but apply equally to the poor.
My perception is that hereditary wealth transfer is about as universal and it's phenomenon get when it comes to humans. Not 100%, but close to it.
> Are you seriously suggesting that the threshold is set at this level because of unpopularity rather than the power of the extremely wealthy?
I absolutely think that significant estate tax is an unpopular concept-- significantly more so than income taxation. A big factor is perceived "double-dipping"; there is some additional justification though because it seems very unlikely to me that less wealthy people could avoid this tax with the same effectiveness as 1%ers (who in many cases probably avoid paying it completely).
I fully agree though that the extremely wealthy leverage their power very effectively to prevent legislation that would affect them negatively-- a very clear example would be basically all of Trumps past and present tax policy, which you could IMO summarize as "tax cuts for the rich" without being too disingenuous, but which is absolutely NOT portrayed like that in mass media (and not perceived accordingly by most of his voters, which get diverted with "no more tax on overtime!" instead).
> Absolutely-- but if you have to exempt like 99% of your population from a law then its probably not too popular a concept (compare income tax, which a lot more people are actually fine with paying).
What? That is completely wrong.
If you gave the populace the option of massively lowering their income tax by slightly upping taxes on anyone with assets exceeding.. say.. $15 million, and massively taxing anyone with assets exceeding $100 million, do you think they'll cheer for the status quo or for lowered income taxes?
I think people will cheer for anything, given consistent positive reporting in mass media.
And media is typically not controlled by people owning <$15M.
If you wrap things nicely in populist rethoric and act in the best interests of media owners (i.e. the rich) then detrimental (for the median voter) changes to tax code are trivial to push through. Just compare the 2017 TCJA act, or the current lunacy-in-progress (essentially replacing progressive tax rates with regressive tariffs).
Sure, it would be easy to make people cheer for additional significant taxes for 1-percenters, but that does not really matter because its not gonna happen.
A huge number of people see themselves as "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" and oppose taxes on the ultrawealthy because they think they might one day be ultrawealthy themselves.
The temporarily embarrassed millionaire meme is a punchline to a joke (look at those stupid greedy people they don't know how stupid they are).
Inheritance taxes don't sit well for many reasons that are actually interesting to discuss
+ People's desire to support friends, families and personal interests is a core reason for an individual to work beyond individual self sufficiency. This makes it very easy to empathize with the millionaire impacted by gift / inheritance taxes that may never be applied to you.
+ Taxes have already been paid on this money - double dipping is very easy to cast as unfair.
+ Clumsy implementations of these types of taxes create situations where small family owned farms and businesses need to be liquidated to cover taxes causing more pain and disruption for families.
+ The constant slippery slope of taxes initially targeted at 'the rich' but over time effecting more and more people due to combinations of inflation and revenue seeking.
+ The simple fact that if the US just seized all the wealth of 800+ billionaires today - it would only be worth 6.2 trillion dollars [1], which doesn't even cover the 6.8 trillion dollars the government spent in 2024. So what do we do next year?
Do we need more revenue? Are we getting the revenue the right way (aka is everyone paying their fair share)? Maybe... But there is certainly a spending problem too.
1: https://inequality.org/article/billionaire-wealth-keeps-grow...
> People's desire to support friends, families and personal interests is a core reason for an individual to work beyond individual self sufficiency.
The fact that the income being taxed is "beyond individual self sufficiency," actually makes it easier to justify taxing. This isn't someone's food budget--it's the extra on top after one's life is fully funded.
> Taxes have already been paid on this money - double dipping is very easy to cast as unfair.
This argument has never made sense. Money gets taxed over and over. It's not like a dollar bill gets taxed once and then you mark it with a pen so it never gets taxed again. Money typically gets taxed when it changes hands: Your company pays you money, it gets taxed. You buy something from a store, that money gets taxed. The store owner issues a dividend to shareholders, it gets taxed. The shareholders get bank interest from that money, it gets taxed. There's nothing unusual about taxing a dollar over and over.
> Clumsy implementations of these types of taxes create situations where small family owned farms and businesses need to be liquidated to cover taxes causing more pain and disruption for families.
This is a sentimental-sounding trope that doesn't really happen in practice. In the USA, inheritance income under $13M doesn't even get taxed at all. This is well outside of the scope of "small farms and businesses." Inheritance, in fact, tends to benefit recipients tax-wise: An heir is allowed to adjust the cost basis of an inherited asset to its market value on the day of the previous owner's death, so that all the previous owner's unrealized capital gains never get taxed. Sitting on $1M of capital gains from your meme stock that you don't want to pay taxes on? Just leave it to your kid in your will--those gains won't be taxed!
The other commenter addressed your other two issues.
I agree with almost all your points, except two:
The US estate tax specifically got basically bigger exemptions every time it was touched (even adjusting for inflation), and returns have been falling precipitously for basically the last 25 years. If you own less than $13M at death, it does not affect you at all right now.
> The simple fact that if the US just seized all the wealth of 800+ billionaires today - it would only be worth 6.2 trillion dollars
Sure-- but I think this is a bit of a strawman. To me, and a lot of people that argue in favor of wealth/estate taxation, the purpose is not to substitute income taxes (like what Trump wants to achieve with tariffs)-- the goal is to get wealth inequality back under control, not to balance the government budget with those tax returns.
Another perspective on wealth distribution is that the top 1% own a third of the country. In my opinion, if you have enough wealth (and liquid enough wealth) to outright buy an average home at sticker price, then you are part of the problem;
I absolutely don't want to compete with people like that on the housing market, and I don't want them to extract excessive rents from people like me (i.e. not-1%ers) either, but thats exactly what happens right now.
> But there is certainly a spending problem too.
I don't really agree with this. I think (expected) government responsibilities have grown tremendously over the last century (mainly for good reason).
I'm confident in saying the the American-favored approach to healthcare ("everyone takes care of it on their own, and negotiates/pays for it by himself") has completely failed for IMO very clear reasons (demand for healthcare is inelastic and only government can force pricing transparency, prevent collusion and a generally fair provider-market in the first place-- obviously).
I'm also confident that shifting back more pension responsibilities onto citizens themselves is also a bad idea, because it creates extremely bad potential outcomes in case of an economic crash. Government providing a survivable social security baseline is just a very clearly good idea to me.
Those two points (healthcare + social security) account for the vast majority of government budget, I think they are basically a good idea, and cutting costs with foreign aid, research funding, environmental regulation/enforcement etc. has IMO neither the potential to save significantly in the first place, nor is it beneficial to do so by itself (I'd even go so far and call the whole doge initiative a thinly veiled propaganda department for the current administration).
A 100% inheritance tax would encourage entrepreneurial behavior and force young people to take risks that they wouldn't otherwise. Capital would operate more efficiently if everyone was on the market in that way. In fact, the inheritance tax would be the only tax if it was total; there would be no other tax burden in one's entire life.
> entrepreneurial behaviour and force young people to take risks that they wouldn't otherwise
Or get them stuck in a permanent debt cycle.
> the inheritance tax would be the only tax if it was total; there would be no other tax burden in one's entire life.
Wouldn't everyone be incentivized to spend as much as they feasibly can before they die and not accumulate too much wealth?
I guess it depends on the specific implementation but the optimal approach would be to take on as much debt as you can to keep your effective net worth close to 0. So even a 100% tax on that might not result in a lot of revenue...