> I have no interest in renting my tools.
While I appreciate the sentiment, the world where you could use the same software for many years without updates is gone. These days developers have to invest significant time and effort into making sure the software just runs on the constantly updated operating systems and platforms — which costs money on an ongoing basis. Expecting your software to be updated regularly without paying regularly makes no sense.
So either you intend to run that exact binary that you downloaded (because that is the tool you bought), or the ongoing costs need to be covered somehow. Some companies do it through subscriptions and some play a game of "no, you don't have to update, but here is this new shiny (more bloated, too) version that we produce every 2 years, you can get it for $50 and OWN IT FOREVER (well, until the next shiny comes along in 2 years time". But it's a game, and the drawback is that there is incentive for bloating software instead of just maintaining it and fixing bugs.
It's simple. I buy a computer and buy the software. This software is installed on this computer and will will work unless the computer is broken. When you bought a CASIO keyboard you do not expect it to stop working after 3 years because it's installed newest updates.
Of course CASIO is not connected to the internet, it won't allow me to steer it with my fancy phone app. So maybe, just maybe, connecting everything to the internet is a simple mistake?
I bought my Lightroom when it was possible and am using with my camera. Once I buy a new camera, it won't be supported in lightroom. And I won't be able to upgrade it because now they moved to the subscription model. And I make photos every 5 months let's say... And lightroom them even less often
Reaper’s “i’m going to stop you from using the software for six seconds with a sufficiently obtrusive, non-arrogant, guilt tripping message about being non-free and you should really purchase a license but you can keep using it and download new versions even if you don’t purchase a license” is absolutely genius and a good sort-of counter example to your covering ongoing costs point. at least it highlights the problem for me i guess. (edit: actually, it’s the same problem i guess that you allude to in your last sentence).
i’ve used repear for years on and off without paying anything. new updates come out all the time. fixes, new features etc. (every time i open Reaper I hang my head in shame for not having bought a license).
repear isn’t a profit optimised entity. i gather it is software created and maintained primarily for people to use. licenses cover costs.
adobe/microsoft are profit optimised entities. people using the software is secondary to them making money off it. subscriptions are there to make them profit, not to cover their costs.
I got a reaper license 10 years ago because I too insist on paying for good software, then I never used it.
While I do recognize those concerns I'll note that it is still a viable model and not just for indie devs. Look to the DAW world (Ableton, FL Studio, Bitwig, Logic, etc.) if you're ever curious about building a sustainable business model around a flat pricing structure.
You listed software that range between $500-$15k. Last time a “I want the option to pay for my software” posts here I replied to was about Infuse. And people complained that “$80 is an absurd amount for a software” and “Why isn’t there a free version?”
A software that costs $500-15k is only feasible for a B2B type business.
> You listed software that range between $500-$15k.
i’m confused… all versions of the DAWs they mentioned in the parent comment are as near as makes no difference below £500.
> Live 12 Suite: £539
> Live 12 Standard: £259
> Live 12 Intro: £69 (nice)
https://www.ableton.com/en/shop/live/
> FL Studio Full: £469 (nice)
> FL Studio Signature: £279
> FL Studio Producer: £199
> FL Studio Fruity: £89
https://www.image-line.com/fl-studio/compare-editions/
> Bitwig Studio: £339
> Bitwig Studio Producer: £169 (nice)
> Bitwig Studio Essentials: £79
> Logic Pro: £199
—-
in case you were replying to their original top-level comment
> Photoshop £22.99 pcm (£276 pa)
> Photoshop Photography £19.99 pcm (£240 pa)
> Photoshop All Creative Cloud £59.99 pcm (£720 pa)
this last one ^ bundles all the proprietary adobe “rented” software they mentioned into one package.
https://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/plans.html
so even then your figures don’t seem to make sense?
> Photoshop All Creative Cloud £59.99 pcm (£720 pa) > this last one ^ bundles all the proprietary adobe “rented” software they mentioned into one package.
And the worst thing about that 'package' is that if you need (say) just Photoshop + Illustrator - well suddenly the 'cheapest' way to do that is paying for the entire package of garbage that you don't want and will never need.
Wow. Flat out wrong and/or hallucinated for both DAW software and the original recommendations.
In USD currently:
FL Studio Producer Edition = $180
Logic X = $200
Bitwig Producer = $200
Ableton Standard = $450
Reaper = $60 (personal use) or $225
Pixelmator = $50
Davinci Resolve = Free or $300
> the software just runs on the constantly updated operating systems and platforms
Don't forget that VMs exists.
I don't mind paying the upgrade price when I need the newer version, but that should be an informed decision. These day, subscriptions are actual gatekeepers to features where when you cancel it, you lose access to the software "pro" features.
VMs don't solve the problem. I was also a fan of running stuff in VMs (using VMware), and then the Apple Silicon transition happened and my Windows VMs no longer work.
I understand where you're going with performance and feature updates, but what about security updates? Those are often flaws that were present at time of shipping.
If I buy a physical lock that's found to be easily opened with a toothpick once it's in the mass market, I'd expect a recall and it to be fixed. With software, it's even easier to deploy a fix.
There's an expectation that purchased software is usable. A server that's connected to the internet that can be compromised easily is no longer usable. Firms selling software applications have an obligation to provide security updates for the life of the product.
> These days developers have to invest significant time and effort into making sure the software just runs on the constantly updated operating systems and platforms — which costs money on an ongoing basis.
What’s different today?
The Internet happened, and operating systems evolve much faster. You could buy a piece of software and run it on MS-DOS 5.0 for a long time if you didn't need networking and the software did what you wanted it to do. You didn't have to update.
Today everything is connected to the internet and exposed to threats, so the updates are much more frequent, and OS makers take advantage of this to push additional stuff and even more changes. The result is a treadmill.
The professionals who still use unstable platforms are forced to rent their tools, sharecropper style. What about professionals like me who made the leap to a stable platform? "Exact binary you downloaded" hasn't been in my toolbox for a long time now.
I don't know many people left who pay for their OS these days.
If you are actually using the software for important tasks, you don't update the OS. If you need something from a new OS, you buy another machine.
It's easy to keep your machines secured even if they are using a decades old OS. Businesses are still depending on a lot of old software and hardware, because it gets the job done with great efficiency.
A day later, as I'm reading the responses and looking at the negative points on my comment: I have to learn to avoid commenting in certain topics on HN. It seems that most people here want their software to be FREE, or at least sold for an inexpensive one-time fee, which I can understand. But they also have a certain model of running a software business in their minds, which is simply wrong.
My bet is that none of the commenters in this thread (full of mentions of sustainable development) actually run a full-time software business and make a living on it. I do. Which is why I understand why subscriptions make sense.
Time to settle on wine as portable API. Bloatware is custom drawn anyway, so a drawing context is all environment they need.