Spooky23 12 hours ago

The main downside is that with greater shipping, you’ll deal with foreign ships crewed by foreigners with little or no regulation. So Liberian flag of convenience, owned by some mysterious Cypriot company, with Italian officers and Filipino sailors.

They likely don’t meet most environmental and other standards that we like to see.

You’ll also get NIMBY pushback as harbor areas are now mostly fancy apartments. Pearls will be clutched with pallets being unloaded along the Embarcadero in SFO.

2
dghlsakjg 11 hours ago

A huge majority of ships that trade in US ports are already foreign owned and crewed. So that isn’t an issue.

As to environment and safety the US have what is called Port State Control. The short of it is that your flag state doesn’t matter, you still have to follow US rules and be subject to US inspection in national waters.

The Jones act only applies to voyages with no international component, which is vanishingly few trips these days. Part of that is the jones act, but the other part of that is that there just isn’t much reason to ship between US ports. There isn’t a ton of goods that need to get between LA and Seattle, say.

mikewarot 9 hours ago

The Jones Act is the reason there is such low utilization of the waterways that are one of the most valuable geographic treasures of North America. There is good reason to ship between US cities where it can be done, it can presently be done for about 1/3 the cost of rail, and 1/5 the cost of truck.[1]

A repeal of the Jones act would help reduce the wear and tear on our highways and railways. It would lower overall costs, and reduce greenhouse emissions. There are also economies of scale that would likely kick in with increased shipping.

[1] https://waterways.arkansas.gov/education/why-waterways/

sydbarrett74 6 hours ago

Valuable for how long, though? With the hydrological cycle changing and causing deluges in places and drought in others, those waterways might not be navigable in 50 years.

toast0 8 hours ago

> There isn’t a ton of goods that need to get between LA and Seattle, say.

I don't know if that's really true. There's not enough to justify Jones act ocean shipping between those ports, because rail and road are viable. But ocean shipping vessels routinely stop and both ports on one voyage and if they could legally transport cargo between US ports, I expect they would.

There's a lot of trade in physical products between Washington and California. Agreculture and aerospace are a big part of both economies.

amanaplanacanal 11 hours ago

You are correct for the lower 48 states, but there is definitely a need for shipping to Hawaii and Puerto Rico.

kazinator 8 hours ago

So why is it a big deal if those have to be American ships? You can't piggyback those transfers on international ships which are going that route anyway

JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago

> why is it a big deal if those have to be American ships?

It's cheaper to fly shit there than deal with financing the delays and cost of American-built ships.

> can't piggyback those transfers on international ships which are going that route anyway

Why not? Works for other Carribean and Pacific islands.

JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago

> you’ll deal with foreign ships crewed by foreigners with little or no regulation

The Jones Act requires "that all goods transported by water between U.S. ports be carried on ships that have been constructed in the United States and that fly the U.S. flag, are owned by U.S. citizens, and are crewed by U.S. citizens and U.S. permanent residents." The main problem is the domestic-construction requirement.

Release the construction completely. Open up ownership to non-adversary countries. U.S. flag only for freshwater, U.S. and friendly flags for saltwater. U.S. and friendly crews for any. You've simultaneously created a small economic boom in logistics, will eventually pass along the lower costs of maritime transport to consumers and reduced emissions by switching to a more-efficient mode. (Possibly, too, increased the competitiveness and TAM of American shipbuilders.)