Etheryte 2 days ago

This feels like an incredibly elaborate way to say that he's a morning person. There's plenty of people for whom the entire thing works the exact opposite, and of course loads of people everywhere in between. I wouldn't really read deep into this, it's one of those takes that tries really hard to sound profound, but it really isn't.

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Aurornis 2 days ago

> This feels like an incredibly elaborate way to say that he's a morning person.

If you read the whole article there’s a section dedicated to evening people.

Regardless, the advice is about avoiding emotionally draining stimuli until you’ve accomplished what you want to do for the day.

You can wake up at noon and still do that. The root problem is that people are consuming large amounts of negative news and social media early in the day and draining their mental capacity before they even get started on what they want to do.

I see this all the time in, for example, junior hires. Some of them will tell me they’re exhausted or they have no time to do anything outside of their 40 hour workweek. When I ask some questions to figure out where their time is going every day, it always comes down to spending so much time on phones and watching Netflix that their time and energy are fully consumed before they have a chance at anything else.

The advice in the article is good and it’s not about being a morning person.

mindslight 2 days ago

> If you read the whole article there’s a section dedicated to evening people.

It's a perfunctory mention of the exact kind morning people commonly throw out to superficially address an evening person's actual constraints.

The article's whole thesis is that after some point in the day your emotions will end up fried. An evening person can't simply flip the arrow of time to make it so that before that point in the day, their emotions have started off fried but then get unfried afterwards. Rather completely different approaches are needed.

The most important part of any meta thinking is to know thyself. I'm sure this article is thoroughly useful for a subset of people, but not me. It would be nice if authors were upfront about the constraints they are writing from, and especially if they didn't try to hand wave them away.

For myself, the news does not significantly affect my emotions more than a handful of times per year. I'm certainly not getting exposed to it or other goings-on through adversarial notifications. And my actual mobile pocket device generally lives by the door. Those are basic table stakes for my own existence.

rolisz 2 days ago

I have small kids, so at the moment I'm a "whenever I have 5-10 quiet minutes" at a time person.

But I remember that I used to be an evening person. And what I remember is that in the evening things got quiet in my head. Yes, usually "emotional" things happened during the day, but after 8-9 PM I had a boost of clarity and could get some difficult tasks.

pseudosavant 2 days ago

No matter what time you are getting up, I think this is suggesting that if there is something important for you to get done, it is better to get it done sooner than later. I am a complete night owl, but leaving the most important items to the end of the day has rarely been a winning plan for me.

dylan604 2 days ago

> You can wake up at noon and still do that.

That's not necessarily true. If you're a morning person managing other people that are not morning people but insist on having daily meetings in the morning, you're an asshole. I find meetings early in the morning sadistic and way more draining than reading the news, but I'm not the type that gets emotional about the news while I will react negatively in an early meeting at the drop of a pin. It's not about needing coffee nor did I get up on the wrong side of the bed or whatever demeaning quip you want to offer. I'm not up to speed until later in the day, and forcing me to pretend I am is just rude. This is the biggest downside to WFH where everyone can live in whatever timezone so someone's afternoon meeting is my morning rather than just scheduling the meeting where everyone is on the same schedule. It's one of the few things about working in an office I can appreciate. Definitely not to be misread as a vote for RTO.

groby_b 2 days ago

> If you're a morning person managing other people that are not morning people but insist on having daily meetings in the morning, you're an asshole.

This of course raises the question why forcing morning meetings on morning people is an asshole move, but forcing morning people to meet afternoon people in the afternoon is OK.

Can I suggest that maybe we all need to put on our big-boy/girl pants and accept that the world has more people than ourselves? And that this means we all need to compromise from time to time?

It is absolutely impossible to get any team efforts done in a world where everybody insists we all exclusively work in their own preferred style of work.

dylan604 21 hours ago

Because if you’re the manager, the time of your team is more important than your time is

adamauckland 2 days ago

If you're a morning person and you're scheduling meetings for the morning you're literally wasting your period of productivity.

tdeck 2 days ago

Unless the closest you ever get to productivity is having meetings :).

dylan604 2 days ago

I couldn't agree more

nomilk 2 days ago

Tangental but I noted this quote from 4HWW:

> Ask: if this is the only thing I accomplish today, will I be satisfied with my day? Don’t ever arrive at your computer without a clear list of priorities, you’ll just read unassociated email and scramble your brain for the day.

When I read that last bit ("scramble your brain") I had a profound sense of agreement that this was incredibly applicable to me. I feel like distractions 'poison' my vibe, productivity, priorities, and most importantly, distract that bit of my brain that ticks away in the background working on important creative stuff. When it's distracted with news, emails, or other junk, it's unavailable to work on creative/important problems that actually matter.

user_7832 2 days ago

Is 4hww 4 hour work week, the book, that you’re referring to? It’s a good quote!

postoplust 2 days ago

(not OP) Yes, the quoted strategy is from The 4-Hour Workweek (Ferriss 2007)

nomilk 2 days ago

Can confirm :)

Terr_ 2 days ago

> Don’t ever arrive at your computer without a clear list of priorities

Sometimes I find it best best to stop my workday before entirely finishing a task: The next morning (or in some cases, the next Monday) there will be an obvious next-step to work on that which I'm already familiar with.

In contrast, arriving without a clear next step can trigger some severe doldrums.

neilv 2 days ago

Does the following part mean they're a morning person, or is it orthogonal?

> “Every day is a new beginning. You wake up and at some point in the day, someone shoots up a school, or something’s going on with your family, or you wake up and eat the wrong thing. And then you’re done. Emotionally cooked. Literally and emotionally poisoned.

> Every day I wake up and can get to the studio before something has shattered my existence, I am grateful. And I can do things.

anal_reactor 2 days ago

Yes, this means he's a morning person. I feel great in the evening because I'm done with all the shit that happened during the day, now it's finally "me-time". There's nothing like a sudden wave of energy at 3AM. In the mornings I always think about all the unpleasant stuff that is going to happen during the day.

safety1st 2 days ago

Yeah it sounds like he's just terminally online. The whole idea here did not resonate with me at all. If I have serious work to do I isolate myself and do it until it's done or I'm out of steam.

If the day "poisons" me that means I should have been more disciplined - the correct answer to consuming news media, for instance, is always to consume less of it. If someone is consistently poisoning my day the answer is to reduce contact with them.

cocacola1 2 days ago

That’s what he says, though, at least in the context of Antonoff. He gets to the studio and gets to work without being sidetracked or letting other things sidetrack him. The “poison” is just the distractions to avoid.

safety1st 1 day ago

The part about accepting when your focus is shot is good, while I'm not convinced it's gone for the entire day, you can definitely get stuck outside of your "flow state" for a couple hours and you may just have to go do other stuff when it happens.

I think what triggered me was this line - "no early morning notifications - no sudden alert about Putin’s latest military actions."

Unless you're a journalist covering the Ukraine war, you really shouldn't have real time notifications informing you about Putin's military actions, and if you do, that's productivity problem #1.

I'm just saying this guy paints a picture of a constantly interrupted life and from my experience the first line of defense is to reduce the interruptions, with measures that are much more aggressive than the average modern person's.

omgtehlion 2 days ago

Maybe he is, but the advice stays for "evening-persons" too. I'm not an early bird, but I noticed that I am most productive when I pull all-nighters, when nothing happens and when no one bothers me. With age it is harder and harder to do though...

devjab 2 days ago

I think there is some sound advice in there that just happens to fit into his mornings. Take always like having your day poisoned by news, stuff in your life and so on would also occur for you if you woke up later. I do agree that it’s not that deep. Anyone who’s bipolar has ADHD or other “doesn’t fit into the 9-5 society” issues can likely tell you how their emotions will fuck with their productivity.

There isn’t a whole lot you can do with it if you don’t have the freedom to work when you’re energised and stop when you’re not. A lot of us in the software industry have the advantage of being able to not work a lot during “normal hours” and then pull off an entire weeks worth of work on a Saturday, but a lot of us don’t. I worked 30 hours a week for a while (37 is normal in Denmark) and I consistently scores between 20-30% better on our infernal measurements for quality and productivity than I did when I went back to a 37 hour week. Not because I was doing anything different, felt less motivated or was intentionally trying to do anything different. I was simply more tired and it impacted me more than it might do to neurotypical (or whatever we call healthy people these days). Of course for me personally the 37 hours are way better because it pays 20% more.

Anyway, even if you aren’t neurodivergent like me I still suspect you’re not cut out to do office work as though you were at an assembly line. Which is really where the modern “work week” originated. Cutting down on distractions, getting enough sleep and so on will obviously work in your favour. So yeah, I agree with you.

flysand7 2 days ago

> Anyone who’s bipolar has ADHD

Did you miss a comma, or, like, where did that come from?

julianeon 2 days ago

There's something it it though that's not interchangeable, that becomes a bigger factor as you age (see: that Bezos quote).

The brain is becoming more physically tired during the day. At a certain point, say 5pm, it's done: the accumulated wear and tear is too much. Try again after sleeping.

This might not be a concern at 20 but is at 60 (Bezos' age).

UniverseHacker 11 hours ago

I usually take a few naps during the workday, and get the sharp morning over again each time.

vonnik 2 days ago

He’s really talking about how to maintain focus and neurological energy, but doesn’t have the right words.

Fwiw, I wrote about it here:

https://vonnik.substack.com/p/the-inner-game-of-knowledge-wo...

It’s something I struggle with, too.

high_priest 2 days ago

I love how you have connected the dots between evaluation of ideas, metaphorisation & invention of consciousness. Linking to relevant book.

I've come up with the same, internalised, realisation, based on my relation with religion & science. Both are a way to describe our world with metaphors (e.g. electric & water currents). At some point, for some people, one is a more attractive way, to describe our relation with the environment.

frou_dh 2 days ago

If you don't wanna read elaborations on known concepts then don't read articles.

I think simplistic terms like "morning person" and "night owl" are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliché applied to identity. Much like "introvert" and "extrovert".

card_zero 2 days ago

Well I think they refer to the genetic make-up of the circadian timing system, as mentioned in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_owl .

vundercind 2 days ago

Most modern night owls just have very bright whole-house lighting and a world-class 24/7 carnival in their pockets.

high_priest 2 days ago

THIS is a brilliant metaphor. I see it myself, how being tired during the day, allows me to justify avoidance of important conflicts. Instead I prefer do indulge myself in the carnival of LED light, doing things which would have little-to-no priority in the middle of social activities. Without the stimuli & light of modern tech, this wouldn't have a chance to be a thing.

Also, I have started thinking about my Night Owliness, as a manifestation of avoidant character in general. The "waiting till deadline to do a sprint" type of mentality.

kelvinjps10 2 days ago

Did you read the article?, is about doing the importnat stuff when no one is around to distract you. >Not an early riser? No problem, just flip it.

Avoid the day. And when it’s done, that’s when your focussed work starts (my favourite adherent of this approach is Demis Hassabis: who works a “second day” from between 11pm and 4am).

Y_Y 2 days ago

I read the article and had the same response as GP. I don't know on what basis the author believes you can "flip it", but it seems at odds with the idea that at some point your day is "poisoned" and the rest must be written off, presumably until you can reset it by sleeping.

Tade0 2 days ago

I guess it follows that one should... take a nap in between?

UnreachableCode 2 days ago

How do you flip it though? What does that really mean?

boo-ga-ga 2 days ago

It can be a different thing for each person. For example, you might have some evening ritual that allows you to refresh your mind. Like an easy nice run. And then, with disabled notifications and clear mind, you can tackle your creative endeavors:).

ted_bunny 2 days ago

Maybe it means finding an antidote rather than a poison. Dealing with bullshit first until you get inspired, and then doing the focused work.

Tade0 2 days ago

I find that advice vague. What does "avoiding the day" even mean?

Anyway, for me it was easier to wake up earlier than try to do focused work after an exhausting day with children. Doing stuff in the middle of the night is a privilege of the childless anyway.

jeltz 2 days ago

Nah, I have several friends who work in the middle of the night after the kids have gone to sleep. That seems to be the the optimal solution for evening persons with kids.

glitchc 2 days ago

This is not possible to do in most workplaces, unless it's remote and the time zone difference works in your favour.

anal_reactor 2 days ago

Exactly this.