tgaj 2 days ago

Theoretically if a human can drive a car using a pair of eyes connected to brain, it should be possible to do that using two cameras connected to some kind of image processing unit.

7
ProblemFactory 2 days ago

> Theoretically it should be possible to do that using two cameras connected to some kind of image processing unit

That "some kind of image processing unit" in humans has an awful lot of compute power and software.

If you remove $100k of sensors but have to add $200k of compute to run more advanced computer vision software, then it's a bad tradeoff to use only cameras, even if in theory that software is possible.

itishappy 2 days ago

In theory. In practice neither the cameras nor processors available in cars function anywhere near human level.

vel0city 1 day ago

It's not even entirely true in theory. We use a lot of our senses when driving. Force feedback on the wheel. Sounds from the environment. Inertial senses. And our vision isn't fixed, its constantly moving.

And yeah, as you mention, cameras don't really have the same level of range our eyes have and computers don't operate in the same way.

fragmede 2 days ago

If we want the sell driving computer to be only possibly as good as a human. I can't see in the dark, can't see through fog, and have trouble with rain. Why is human visibility the bar to meet here?

bigstrat2003 1 day ago

Because we allow humans to drive, therefore if something can perform as well as a human it should be allowed. The bar is a floor, not a ceiling.

fragmede 2 days ago

Oh and the sun. I get blinded when the sun is in my eyes at sunrise and sunset.

tgaj 2 days ago

And how many car accidents did you cause in your life? Probably still no a lot even with your flawed vision.

carbotaniuman 2 days ago

Theory isn't really all that applicable to this though - in theory nothing is stopping anyone from writing all code in assembly, but obviously that doesn't happen.

I think more practically cars have adding driver assistance feature for a while now - more cameras, blind spot monitoring, ultrasound for parking, lane drift indicators.

It is therefore not unreasonable to assume that adding more sensors is helpful (but even the old adage of more data is better than less would probably say that).

tgaj 2 days ago

To be honest, it's possible that having too much data can only cause problems in quick decision-making. Any redundant data will only slow down processing pipelines.

knifie_spoonie 2 days ago

In practice humans aren't particularly safe drivers.

xdmr 2 days ago

Is that because their vision fails to provide the information necessary to drive safely? Or is it due to distraction and/or poor judgment? I don't actually know the answer to this, but I assume distraction/judgment is a bigger factor.

I'm not a fan of the camera-only approach and think Tesla is making a mistake backing it due to path-dependence, but when we're _only_ talking about this is _broadly theoretical_ terms, I don't think they're wrong. The ideal autonomous driving agent is like a perfect monday morning quarterback who gets to look at every failure and say "see, what you should have done here was..." and it seems like it might well both have enough information and be able too see enough cases to meet some desirable standard of safety. In theory. In practice, maybe they just can't get enough accuracy or something.

ra7 2 days ago

> Is that because their vision fails to provide the information necessary to drive safely?

In certain conditions, yes. Humans drive terribly in dark and low light, something lidar excels in.

tgaj 2 days ago

Still, millions of humans drive every night and only a miniscule percentage cause any accidents. So maybe we are not so bad at this.

ra7 2 days ago

According to NHTSA, about half of all fatal crashes occur at night, even though only 25% of driving happens at nighttime. So yes, we are pretty bad at this.

tgaj 2 days ago

I totally agree, I think most accidents are caused by human nature (especially slow reaction time in specific conditions like being tired or drunk) and ignoring laws of physics (driving too fast). And some are just a pure bad luck (something/someone getting on the road right in front of the car).

KeplerBoy 2 days ago

Sure, but why strive for that? We can have better than human perception by adding lidar and radar.

jdhwosnhw 2 days ago

Imagine that same reasoning applied to the car itself. Ugh, wheels?? Humans get around just fine bipedally, so cars should have legs too.

dawnerd 2 days ago

Explains the Tesla robot actually