foundry27 4 days ago

The big-picture view is here: https://gitlab.com/owl-lisp/owl/-/blob/master/doc/manual.md

Key points include:

- 100% immutable datastructures

- Immutability is leveraged to make a lot of core operations concurrent

- Continuation-based threading model and Actor-based concurrency

- Fun little VM implemented behind the scenes

That being said, the documentation strongly contradicts the title!

> The goal has not at any point been to become an ultimate Lisp and take over the world

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dleink 3 days ago

> The goal has not at any point been to become an ultimate Lisp and take over the world

obviously something a lisp that had designated itself ultimate and was keen to take over the world would say.

ValentinA23 3 days ago

I'm wondering if a language could optimize immutable data structures to use mutable, in place semantics instead of duplication or structural sharing when it is possible. When an immutable data structure only has one consumer (only has one descendant in the flow graph), then it can easily be turned into a mutable version. Generalizing, any linear subgraph in the program's flow graph could be made to use in place semantics on the same mutable variable.

The challenge I guess is figuring out how variables captures by lambdas should be dealt with.

masijo 3 days ago

This is how Clojure does it, take a look at this: https://clojure.org/reference/transients

It's great, one of the many awesome features Clojure has.

zvrba 3 days ago

I implemented an academic paper (join tree) in C# here https://github.com/zvrba/Pfm

It provides the opposite: a mutable CoW data structure that is extremely cheap to "fork" so that all subsequent updates occur only on the new "fork" and are invisible to the old "fork".

zelphirkalt 3 days ago

Isn't that the point of well designed persistent data structures?

zellyn 3 days ago

This is the bet Roc is taking. They call it "Opportunistic Mutation" and you can read about it at https://www.roc-lang.org/functional

I didn't see links on that page, but IIRC, there's a particular paper they reference as the main idea.

ketralnis 3 days ago

Python also detects this situation (at runtime using refcounts) and does in-place mutations where possible https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/a2ee89968299fc4f0da4b...

coldtea 3 days ago

>I'm wondering if a language could optimize immutable data structures to use mutable, in place semantics instead of duplication or structural sharing when it is possible.

Yes, many languages (and libs, e.g. for JS) do that.

zelphirkalt 3 days ago

Does it feature implementations of lots of purely functional data structures then? Or does it only apply to a few builtins?

And would other Schemes be free to copy those?